harmonicanick
2034 posts
Oct 02, 2013
6:45 AM
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Some weird stuff coming over the press in the Uk
What's happening guys??
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HawkeyeKane
2077 posts
Oct 02, 2013
6:52 AM
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Well Nick, in a nutshell, Obama's healthcare act has sparked so much heat between the Republicans and Democrats in Congress on how to fund it, they've basically shut down all non-essential federal offices until it gets resolved. The same thing has been threatened here in my state of Illinois in the past when the legislature was deadlocked on how to resolve the state budget. It's a mess right now to be sure.
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Hawkeye Kane
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orphan
299 posts
Oct 02, 2013
7:06 AM
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It seems the minds of our congresspeople have been closed for quite awhile. Both parties should be "sent to their rooms" and come out when they can represent the people.
Just a brief intermission, folks. I'm am now back in Reality...
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The Iceman
1200 posts
Oct 02, 2013
7:11 AM
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I'm sure you in the UK can look on with amusement at how the Yanks act without proper decorum and respect.
After all, this country was founded by riff raff expelled from Europe for the most part.
In Washington, DC, it's business as usual as the elected officials (who "claim" to represent the people) play games of chicken in order to convince the public that the other party is the bad guy.
Did your news coverage mention the fact that all members of congress are "exempt" from the downside of closure, furloughs and losing back pay?
They also get to retain their free health insurance benefits regardless of the Obamacare stuff.
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The Iceman
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barbequebob
2344 posts
Oct 02, 2013
8:04 AM
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The problem is that in both parties, there are almost no moderates, AKA the adults in the room who can get in the faces of either the very ultra conservative or the the very ultra liberal and both of them are a bunch of hard headed ideologues and it's intolerance is annoying and that is why I stay unregistered in terms of political parties and I have HUGE gripes with both of them and a stronger third party full of moderates are needed to keep both of their sorry asses in line.
Much of Congress are all multi-millionaires to beginn with so nothing really bothers them unless they feel the heat from the public or lose elections and there's just too much money involved in it on all sides.
BTW, the free health care Congress gets would be considered not just Platinum, but Ultra Platinum.
I find this ironic because Obamacare is based on Romneycare that was instituted here in MA back in 2007, and Gov. Mitt Romney got this plan note for note from the oldest running Conservative Repulibican think tank around, known as the Heritage Foundation and I find Republican opposition to this plan puzzling because Obamacare AND Romneycare comes from these people and they're denying an actual truth and I made sure I did my homework on this to get the real truth.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Rick Davis
2476 posts
Oct 02, 2013
8:22 AM
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I am not EVEN getting involved in this thread.
(well... maybe)
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Oct 03, 2013 8:59 AM
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1847
1159 posts
Oct 02, 2013
8:38 AM
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MR BBQ
is that a polite way of saying
they are a bunch of blowhards lol
i agree
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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dougharps
443 posts
Oct 02, 2013
9:07 AM
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It just goes to show that Representatives and Senators who take their responsibilities seriously should not vote to pass a bill unless they know what is in it, regardless of party affiliation.
The bill was pushed by leadership and had too many pages to bother reading before voting to pass it. Voters are still discovering what is in the bill. Even after the presidential re-election new details are coming to light that have resulted in a lower approval ratings.
Elected officials need to take responsible measured action to manage the nation, not always play politics. Healthcare needed responsible measured reform, with full disclosure before voting.
Oops, back to Reality... I'm tired of US politics on all sides.
Edit: I just noticed that the video that came up on Google was on Fox News. Not an endorsement of Fox News, or any other media outlet, as they ALL present their biases in their reporting.
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Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Oct 02, 2013 9:09 AM
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Greg Heumann
2391 posts
Oct 02, 2013
9:08 AM
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WOW - I am impressed. Many honest and intelligent answers above - and NONE of them partisan. That takes a lot of restraint. I am sure we have members here who are passionate on BOTH sides of the fence - but I'm glad it hasn't come to that and encourage us all to avoid it going there!
***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
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Frank
2874 posts
Oct 02, 2013
9:11 AM
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Don't let a bunch of congressional amateurs ruin a beautiful day - at least here in PA :)
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Stevelegh
853 posts
Oct 02, 2013
9:12 AM
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I do find it interesting how the mechanics of politics play out in different nations. I'd like to suggest to Mr Ice that UK politics is in some way better, but you watch our guys when Parliament is in session and its like watching a room full of 12 year old hecklers.
I remember my first time in the US was in 1999 when the Gore - Bush vote counting thing was going on. On the way over I'd read about Strom Thurman and how, as the oldest member of the Senate could theoretically be sworn in as interim President. On the way from Seattle airport to the hotel, I mentioned this to the cab driver and thought it would be amusing for a 90+ year old guy in a wheelchair taking the world's most powerful job and that the driver would be impressed at my political insight and local knowledge.
From the reaction I got, suggesting that I crap on the dashboard may have gone down better.... ;)
Last Edited by Stevelegh on Oct 02, 2013 9:17 AM
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Buzadero
1135 posts
Oct 02, 2013
9:13 AM
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Greg, I agree. When I saw the thread title, I wondered. But, I think we can all agree that the dysfunction of the culture and the system is what's on display. The reasons and opinions on the subject matter is too wide open to address on a recreational harp site. The frustration of the situation is the point of my reply.
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
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HawkeyeKane
2078 posts
Oct 02, 2013
9:20 AM
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"From the reaction I got, crapping on the dashboard may have gone down better...."
LMAO! If you'd been in South Carolina, it might've gone down differently.
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Hawkeye Kane
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dougharps
444 posts
Oct 02, 2013
9:24 AM
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Frank, that is beautiful.
I liked your earlier photos of the produce from your garden, too.
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Doug S.
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Frank
2875 posts
Oct 02, 2013
9:38 AM
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Thanks Doug - how is it in your neck of the woods these days? Hope things are going swell :)
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dougharps
446 posts
Oct 02, 2013
9:46 AM
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Still love making music, mainly acoustic recently.
Just seeing beginning hints of fall color.
It was really dry in September, and my wife's shrubs and perennials have suffered, despite daily watering. We don't bother with the lawn, which died back.
The world keeps turning and life goes on...
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Doug S.
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Frank
2876 posts
Oct 02, 2013
9:52 AM
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Acoustic ...cool - it;s a dying art form and under rated. I had to water today - but very little throughout the season...I agree about the lawn - it will resurface in due time. Anyway, I would love to own a harp from Joe Spiers one of these days - now that would be money well spent :)
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Sarge
347 posts
Oct 02, 2013
10:08 AM
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Me too Frank. Get me one while you're at it, 7 limit JI please.
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Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
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harmonicanick
2035 posts
Oct 02, 2013
10:11 AM
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Interesting, thanks for the posts (nice Frank)
End of thread
Last Edited by harmonicanick on Oct 02, 2013 10:14 AM
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Frank
2877 posts
Oct 02, 2013
10:24 AM
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May I please impose one more kind thought...And that is a BIG shout-out thank you to Doug, one heck of a fine gent :)
Sarge, will a stage II marine band due?
Last Edited by Frank on Oct 02, 2013 10:25 AM
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barbequebob
2347 posts
Oct 02, 2013
10:55 AM
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I think it's time to give both parties and industrial strength baby rattle.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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groyster1
2413 posts
Oct 02, 2013
11:24 AM
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as far as the UK goes,I have first cousins near brighton........never heard anything negative about the healthcare there,in Ireland,isle of man or Canada....been all these places...everybody needs it
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jbone
1375 posts
Oct 02, 2013
11:30 AM
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Frank I grew up just over the border in NY state. Saw many autumns like that. Let's not forget the 2 feet of snow that sometimes came a few months later! A heat wave in NY state was anything above 80. Here in Arkansas in the summer that's a cold front!
re: the political situation- you guys have got it covered. My ONE thought is there must be a song or 300 in there somewhere.
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https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
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Rick Davis
2478 posts
Oct 02, 2013
11:36 AM
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Home...
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
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Sarge
348 posts
Oct 02, 2013
11:56 AM
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"Sarge, will a stage II marine band due?"
Amazingly, that's just what I had in mind.
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Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
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nacoran
7181 posts
Oct 02, 2013
12:12 PM
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Without weighing in on the specific politics, and expanding on Stevelegh's comment-
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Nate
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easyreeder
405 posts
Oct 02, 2013
1:17 PM
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I don't know where the 18% figure comes from, or what it reflects. According to most reports I've seen there are 800,000 federal employees furloughed, or almost 40% of the federal workforce. Maybe that translates to only 18% of federal offices closing the doors (I don't know), but when you lose that much of your workforce the impact is huge in terms of ability to get work done.
Active duty military still report for duty and will still get paid. "Excepted" civilian employees are not furloughed and will be paid. Some civilians are paid by non-appropriated funds and so are exempt from furlough and they will be paid. Contracted staff will remain on duty and be paid.
I'm one of those furloughed employees. Here are some facts (not complaints, just realities) about how it impacts me both professionally and personally:
I work for DOD. At our activity, our mission related work is 100% shutdown, only critical infrastructure and safety work is staffed. The nature of the work we do means that it's difficult or impossible to recover lost time, so if the shutdown proves lengthy the impact can ripple through the next several years for the service members involved.
The shutdown in 1995/96 (I was there for that one too) was mostly during the winter holiday period when less work is typically happening because of people taking holiday leave, and that mitigated the impact somewhat for us. But this year it happens at the beginning of a critical cycle for us. There's no official word how they'll mitigate the effect of a lengthy shutdown, but the possibility of holiday leave requests being denied seems very real from my perspective.
On Tuesday morning I reported to work and turned off mission critical equipment, informing confused customers (both active duty and civilians) that all projects were offline. Some of the active duty military tried to work through it, but found it wasn't possible without the civilian support staff. An employee on furlough status is legally not permitted to perform any government duties, including responding to email or doing any other work from a home computer. We were ordered off the worksite.
Having contracted staff on duty doesn't always translate to work getting done; many work under guidance of or in tandem with civil servants, so the contractors may be idle even though officially on duty.
The furlough translates to "leave without pay" until further notice. It also affects our annual and sick leave accrual. But it doesn't change our employment status, which means we are subject to recall on very short notice and must be back at work almost immediately when notified, or when the President signs a budget or continuing resolution. That makes it virtually impossible to get other work during the furlough because (a) Who would hire you knowing you're going to cut and run with no warning?, and (b) Outside employment often requires official clearance, which can't be obtained because of the shutdown.
So from the employee's perspective, the furlough notice reads like this: "You can't come to work, and you're not getting paid, but don't take another job, and don't leave town."
My sister offered to buy me a plane ticket to come visit her (and fix things around her house as part of the bargain). I'd love to do it because I'd get to visit my young nephew who I see little of, but it's not an option because I wouldn't be able to report for duty quickly enough if I'm gone when the shutdown ends. My workplace is about 3000 miles from my family. If the shutdown causes holiday leave to be cancelled I'll miss the only chance until next summer to see my college student daughters together.
Cash-flow is a problem for a furloughed worker, but in 1996 Congress & the President authorized back pay. I don't remember if we got 100% of the pay restored. I also don't remember any of my coworkers arguing we were entitled to it. I'm prepared to absorb lost wages this time, but it's going to hurt and if it goes on for weeks it will do real damage.
Last Edited by easyreeder on Oct 02, 2013 1:18 PM
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Shaganappi
44 posts
Oct 02, 2013
2:37 PM
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Thanks for the vid Nate. But any move to equilibrium of a 2 party system sure does not happen here in Canada much. Maybe someone can explain the difference. I don't know why. Maybe we just don't take politics as serious. Why are we are so different? Too much time spent in igloos keeping us as the "cool dudes"?
And Frank. I second your vote for "gent of the year (or more)" to Doug. Have spent a couple of weekends around him and agree totally.
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nacoran
7182 posts
Oct 02, 2013
8:54 PM
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Shaganappi, it may have to do with the difference between a presidential and a parliamentary government.
http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/10/juan_linz_dies_yale_political_scientist_explains_why_government_by_crisis.html
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Aussiesucker
1326 posts
Oct 03, 2013
12:21 AM
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I concur with Harmonica Nick re the weird reporting we also receive here in Oz . I guess I should not really comment as I don’t purport to understand your situation. It is however big news here in Oz. Not understood, but whatever financially happens in the US does have more than a ripple effect here. So it does concern us. Bloody Wall Street stuffed up a lot of my retirement savings plans & I don’t want to see another such happening. The US sneezes and the world catches a cold!
My understanding was that Obama is trying to get passage of what to us are reported on as seemingly sensible reform in the universal health care area? The sort of reform he is after sound to us like it only mirrors what is normal & acceptable in other advanced economies?
It appears to us here that the worlds most powerful man with an elected mandate is frustrated in trying to implement reforms by opponents whose agendas differ? I may be totally wrong? But we scratch our heads here and wonder what the hell is up ie who is running the show? Obama copped the same sort of obstacles in trying to implement what to us was viewed as only the start of sensible gun controls.
In most ways we look up to and really admire the US as a mighty power. It does however seem bogged down by a system that doesn’t want to move with the times on what we here would view as socially responsible issues.
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HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
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Aussiesucker
1327 posts
Oct 03, 2013
12:21 AM
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Last Edited by Aussiesucker on Oct 03, 2013 12:23 AM
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walterharp
1184 posts
Oct 03, 2013
6:10 AM
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2 of 8 in my band are furloughed in their regular day jobs. This is financially hurting many people directly.
maybe the only good to come from this in the US is that people will realize how much they really get back from the government for their tax dollars.
If this does extend to not increasing the debt ceiling, then those of you overseas should really start worrying, as economists are predicting that will have really big economic repercussions on the world economy.
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nacoran
7185 posts
Oct 03, 2013
6:30 AM
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Aussiesucker, actually, the health plan was already passed and is starting to be implemented. The Republicans are against it, so they are refusing to pass the budget until it gets repealed.
A couple weeks from now, we'll also be running up against a debt ceiling- we have a law that says the government can't exceed that limit without a separate bill to raise the limit. It's become a political hot potato that can be used by either party if they control any one of the three- Senate, House or Presidency. They threaten to veto the bill if they don't get concessions, and shut down the government. The last time that rolled around we got our credit rating dinged.
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HawkeyeKane
2085 posts
Oct 03, 2013
6:54 AM
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@Aussiesucker
"My understanding was that Obama is trying to get passage of what to us are reported on as seemingly sensible reform in the universal health care area? The sort of reform he is after sound to us like it only mirrors what is normal & acceptable in other advanced economies?"
On one hand I agree with you in the respect that many other nations have adopted the universal healthcare successfully, and its undeniably become a good thing in those countries. But there are downsides to them. For instance....surgeries can take a helluva lot longer to get done in a subsidized healthcare country like Canada. And a lot of folks actually come to America to get the surgeries performed faster, paying out of pocket.
I think the major objection that many Americans have had toward the healthcare act is that (in some people's eyes) it demonstrates an act of socialism, in that the government has taken control of an aspect of everyday life that was a free-market and capitalist industry up until that time. Same thing with the gun control movement, which goes against the 2nd Amendment's right to bear arms (or at least as some Americans interpret it). When the government starts making such drastic changes to things of this nature, I think it kind of gives America a flashback to the Red Scare and McCarthyism.
One quote that I consistently saw flashed around facebook when the gun control debacle began was:
"To pacify a nation, first disarm its citizens." - Adolf Hitler
Now, when something even vaguely reminiscent to a concept of one of the most infamous men in history starts being talked about present day, you can bet there's gonna be backlashes and turbulence over it. Some might consider the argument extreme. I think we all have to make our own judgements. All I'm saying is I think these might be reasons why some folks in America believe and argue the way they do when it comes to the current political debacle.
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by HawkeyeKane on Oct 03, 2013 6:54 AM
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harpwrench
694 posts
Oct 03, 2013
7:26 AM
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Great thread, let's get one going on religion too!
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The best you know is usually only as good as the best you've had.
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Stevelegh
854 posts
Oct 03, 2013
7:37 AM
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Very maturely handled by all, I thought. A mod even chimed in.
Much more civil than the pucker vs tongue block threads ;)
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Rick Davis
2488 posts
Oct 03, 2013
7:56 AM
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Rick Davis
2489 posts
Oct 03, 2013
8:44 AM
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Tim wrote: "Obama's healthcare act has sparked so much heat between the Republicans and Democrats in Congress on how to fund it, they've basically shut down all non-essential federal offices until it gets resolved."
Not really. ACA is a law passed by both houses of congress and signed by the president and approved by the United States Supreme Court. It is already funded; that was resolved in 2010. It is already up and running.
The republicans have shut down the government because their demand that ObamaCare be abolished cannot be achieved through normal legislative means. Normally the republicans would draw up a bill to repeal Obamacare but they know that is doomed. The US House has voted to repeal nearly 50 times and it has gone nowhere. It is a goal they cannot achieve legislatively. They are frustrated.
Prez Obama and the Democrats are demanding that the republicans not shut the government down, and deal with Obamacare through normal legislative processes. The Continuing Resolution in question right now has one purpose: To fund the government because the US House failed to pass a budget this spring as required by the constitution. The republicans are using the CR and government shutdown to try to achieve political goals they cannot attain in normal congressional business.
That is a factual synopsis of what this is all about. I know it is complicated, but our friends from around the world deserve the facts when they ask what the heck is going on.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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HawkeyeKane
2086 posts
Oct 03, 2013
8:44 AM
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@Honkin'
Some of Robin Williams' best work was in that movie.
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Hawkeye Kane
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Frank
2882 posts
Oct 03, 2013
9:07 AM
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Joe...Politics is Religion, only the names have been changed to protect the less than innocent :)
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Rick Davis
2490 posts
Oct 03, 2013
9:34 AM
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Doug, that quote by Nancy Pelosi is taken WAY out of context. Her point was there was so much fiction from ACA opponents about what was in the bill. ("Death Panels!") If you view the entire speech -- not just the Fox News edited clip -- it becomes clear she was talking about dispelling all the myths.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
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Honkin On Bobo
1160 posts
Oct 03, 2013
9:44 AM
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Damn Hawk,
For a moment I thought I might get away with it, but yeah, great movie and a great line...laughed out loud when I heard RW say it.
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KingoBad
1396 posts
Oct 03, 2013
10:36 AM
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Please make it stop...
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Danny
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groyster1
2414 posts
Oct 03, 2013
11:13 AM
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thanks for posting about Canadian healthcare....it amazes me that so many live only 100 miles from the American Canada border but can be so vastly different...
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dougharps
450 posts
Oct 03, 2013
11:43 AM
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Thanks Frank and Shaganappi! I appreciate your appreciation, and feel likewise about you and all the posters on this site who maintain civility.
@Frank
"Politics is Religion"
Wow... So true... Belief and faith...
I lack faith in any one political viewpoint, because I find some truths in all of them, and false assumptions in all of them.
@Greg_Heumann and Stevelegh
I agree that this conversation has so far been handled in a reasonable way without escalation.
@Honkin On Bobo
Absolutely! Change them often!
@Rick Davis
I live in a progressive/liberal university town, so I understand the futility of trying to discuss different political philosophies. I find that ironic.
In my opinion there is currently no news outlet that accurately reflects the reasoning and viewpoints of the different political positions. So I listen and watch reports that present each viewpoint and try to note what is omitted in reporting and what bias is inherent in the unstated assumptions of that perspective.
OK... Regarding the Pelosi video clip:
It is certainly a short soundbite, and is out of context. But it sure is a cool quote!
The point that it is out of context doesn't change the fact that many members of Congress admitted that they had not read the bill before voting, and admitted that they followed Democrat leadership in voting.
Republicans were excluded from the AHA discussions. The House and Senate were held at that time by Democrats with a Democrat President, so they pushed it through. That's politics...
When the voters reacted and elected Republicans to hold the House in the 2010 election, Congress reached the current deadlock. No one will compromise, no one holds the same view of what are facts. That's politics...
Neither party has been willing/able to compromise on an actual budget. Continuing resolutions continue...
It is a case in which the frameworks through which each faction views the situation are so disparate that negotiation has broken down. Each side has a different vision of what the government of the United States is and should be.
We will not resolve that here, and shouldn't spend the time and bandwidth trying. I would rather play harp.
**************************************************
I like the Crossover and Marine Band Deluxe out of the box, but Deak's harps have me spoiled. Special 20s are the best bargain out there. I like Manji, & Seydel Steel harps, but they cost too much for my current finances. Delta Frosts are pretty durable and play pretty good, too, but not my favorites. Lee Oskars just don't satisfy me any more, though they really last a long time.
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Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Oct 03, 2013 4:16 PM
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nacoran
7186 posts
Oct 03, 2013
2:30 PM
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Thanks everyone for keeping things civil. I had a brief power outage this morning (unrelated to the shutdown) but when the power came back on I turned on the TV, and there seemed to be no signal. I flipped up a couple channels and there was a signal. After a couple moments of flipping around, I realized it was the public access channels. Government shutdown? Actually, I think the cable company may have moved them. I vaguely recall some ads about that.
It's strange. I remember back when they were pushing for all the balanced budget rules it was supposed to be a panacea to cure all our ills. Now it's just another point of contention. I don't think, in the long run, either party is going to like it very much. Both sides have things they want to spend money on, there is an 'easy' loophole, and it just gives both sides another tool to shut things down with.
So, aside from the short term issues, like it's been mentioned above, there will be a bigger issue when the debt ceiling issue comes up again in a couple weeks. So how weird has American politics gotten? Well, one of the plans to avert disaster is to print a trillion dollar platinum coin. A trillion dollar platinum coin? Yeap, a trillion dollar platinum coin. Because of some arcane rules regarding the printing/minting of currency, it may be legal for the president to order a trillion dollar coin be minted and deposited. Crisis solved?!?
http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/01/_1_trillion_platinum_coin_the_debt_ceiling_standoff_can_be_averted_with.html
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GEEZER1
199 posts
Oct 03, 2013
3:02 PM
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Politicos please take your political argument to a political forum. Let us discuss our hobby or job, harmonicas and harmonica accessories.. thank you very much....
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Frank
2885 posts
Oct 03, 2013
4:13 PM
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Propaganda is the fuel of political power and influence - it is all smoke and mirrors with just enough method to the madness thrown in to create an (us vs them) mentality...Reality is we need rich people and poor people and every economic structure in between those. Monetary diversity is a reality that creates greatness...At Least in a FREE society - from rags to riches is possible in America...A Utopian country were everyone is exactly the same as everyone else financially and everyone is living the good life will only happen in the movies :(
I swear to God my next harp will be a Spiers Stage II - even if I have to tax someone or sign up for a gov hand-out to get it...Nah - I don't feel like working harder or longer to earn it ;) Which one am I - us or them ? Am I a victim of the propaganda, blinded by the smoke and mirrors - God help me see the light...
Last Edited by Frank on Oct 03, 2013 4:14 PM
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SuperBee
1454 posts
Oct 03, 2013
4:43 PM
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Well, you cats got those guns so you can defend yourselves against the government...how come you all ain't doing something about it?
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Frank
2889 posts
Oct 03, 2013
4:45 PM
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Well - about an hour ago some lady in a car did take it upon her self to do something about it and lets just say - the joke was on her :(
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