ME.HarpDoc
301 posts
Mar 21, 2018
12:47 PM
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I was at a jam recently and ready to join some players who had apparently played together before. One of the guitar players said to me, " How are you at bending? The band is going to be tuned a quarter note flat. Are you ok with that?"
Well, I opted out of that because I wasn't sure what to do. Can someone help me with how I would approach that?
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20REEDS
47 posts
Mar 21, 2018
12:52 PM
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Sounds like they are being jerks and doing it on purpose so they can exclude you... best to move on to cooler people.
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Littoral
1585 posts
Mar 21, 2018
1:18 PM
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I don't think it's a serious question but I would like to see a band that can tune like that.
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hvyj
3559 posts
Mar 21, 2018
1:26 PM
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+1. He's full of shit. Some guitar oriented bands will tune down a half step but claiming to tune down a quarter tone makes no sense. Now, there are bands who will tune to A432 and some bands will tune to a reference pitch higher than A440. As I understand it, tuning higher than A440 may be more prevalent in certain styles of music than others.
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Bilzharp
160 posts
Mar 21, 2018
6:14 PM
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As 20REEDS said, it sounds like they've found a creative way to keep unwanted players out of "their" jam set. I'd say that they're cementing their reputation with other local musicians as jerks. Not a great strategy.
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STME58
2055 posts
Mar 21, 2018
6:30 PM
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I have often said jokingly to musicians that if they want to prevent harp players sitting in, they should tune a quarter step off. BUt also warned that the really bad ones won't even realize they are out of tune!
Most often in my experience, the reason for tuning way off a standard pitch is because one of the brass player tuning slide is stuck so everybody tunes to them.
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Bilzharp
162 posts
Mar 21, 2018
6:37 PM
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"I have often said jokingly to musicians that if they want to prevent harp players sitting in, they should tune a quarter step off."
So, YOU'RE to blame! :D
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ME.HarpDoc
302 posts
Mar 26, 2018
7:47 AM
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Thanks all. If it happens again I won't be fooled. Fortunately I've got plenty of choices. That particular jam draws a lot of good musicians. Most are welcoming and encouraging. If I ever come across that person again I'll just tell him "I'll just play really loud. That flattens the notes about 3/8th of a note and should be close enough" and see how he responds. (In case any new players are reading this, I'm just kidding about how much playing loud flattens a note. That topic has been discussed relative to tuning though).
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garry
711 posts
Mar 26, 2018
2:34 PM
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Tell him your harps are tuned a quarter note sharp, so it'll all average out.
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Chris Sachitano
28 posts
Mar 28, 2018
4:59 PM
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I have never heard of anyone tuning down quarter tone. I am not sure why they would do that, other than trying to go all 432, which I have yet to see ever come up in an open jam. Maybe they were new age nerds trying to find themselves through the magic of 432. I think they are jacking with you.
If you ever get up to a "jam" and you are asked something like that, then there decreased likelihood you will learn anything playing with them. Three minutes of busking on the bar's front step while the elitists impress their friends will earn you more returns.
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indigo
486 posts
Mar 28, 2018
9:44 PM
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If you have got onto a stage at a 'Jam' and the other guys tell you that they tune down a 1/4 step..it is not a jam but a band rehearsal for them.
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Frankie
124 posts
Mar 29, 2018
12:58 AM
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A lot of guitar players and bands do this. Specially in church music if they are dealing with traditional hymns because a large number of songs are in Eb,Ab,Db etc and it makes it very difficult for guitar players to do those shapes on their guitars.
Some metal players down tune to make the sound more aggressive and dark.
If you tune half step down it makes it easier for them to play songs in Ab , Db , Eb because when they come across any Ab , Db or Eb etc Chords they can simply use A, D, E shape on their guitars to accomplish this easily .
I have one guitar that is tuned this way. However you could simply ask them to put a capo on their guitar 4th Fret and use chords normal shape on higher neck. ( If they know what they are doing they can do this )
Last Edited by Frankie on Mar 29, 2018 1:05 AM
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Littoral
1586 posts
Mar 29, 2018
4:37 AM
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Frankie, half step, yes, but not a quarter step.
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STME58
2059 posts
Mar 29, 2018
7:32 AM
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Frankie, your mention of the capo reminds me of another exclusionary tactic. (though in most cases this one is unintentional) I have seen in jams and song circles where the tune is called as "G cords, with a capo on the fourth fret". I have been tempted to retaliate when it is my turn with "F harmonica, 12th position".
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slaphappy
351 posts
Mar 29, 2018
8:03 AM
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personally I think it's best if the band tunes to the harp player :D
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4' 4+ 3' 2~~~
-Mike Ziemba
Harmonica is Life!
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STME58
2060 posts
Mar 29, 2018
12:18 PM
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slaphappy, isn't that basically what you are doing when you tune to a pitch pipe?
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nacoran
9789 posts
Mar 29, 2018
12:38 PM
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STME58, that's an interesting question. I'd suspect, I think, that a pitch pipe is probably 440 ET since you are just using it to find the first note usually.
I've got one that used to belong to my mom when she was in college. (She doesn't do much music these days. She used to play trumpet quite well... hmm, I wonder if she could do that now... her shoulder got messed up last year. I've got the guitar she bought to learn on sitting in my living room because she can't hold it. Unfortunately my wrists don't seem to do well with guitar.)
I actually have always thought it would be kind of neat to try to design a spinnable stacked pitch pipe. If you could spin them relative to each other you could play any two notes you wanted. I suppose you could even stack it 3 high and play any chord you wanted. I'm not sure how playable it would be in real time though.
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Nate
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Spderyak
209 posts
Mar 29, 2018
3:42 PM
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ahh...then you can listen to the A Cappella folks discuss which is the best pitch pipe...electronic or old style..
They love singing on pitch..and they know when we are off the mark...for example if you are doing a few tunes between their sets...
Last Edited by Spderyak on Mar 29, 2018 3:43 PM
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STME58
2061 posts
Mar 29, 2018
4:43 PM
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Nate, I have an Allora plastic trumpet that is surprisingly not bad. ONe of the good things about it is it is very light, might be goo for someone with a messed up shoulder. They sell them at Guitar Center.
I think I remember you mentioning the pitch pipe idea before. I still have this on my dropbox from your idea. SpinPipe
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jbone
2535 posts
Apr 01, 2018
6:38 AM
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You could always ask to borrow the guitar guy's 1/4 flat tuning fork.
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Thievin' Heathen
986 posts
Apr 01, 2018
8:11 AM
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Just tell him "that's OK, I'm used to playing with guitar players who think lining up all the tuning keys is the way to tune a guitar".
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hvyj
3562 posts
Apr 01, 2018
8:53 AM
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The mention of using a capo brings back memories of sitting in with guitarists/singers at open mics (as opposed to jams). When I woul ask what key they were in I'd often get a bewildered look and something like"well, the tune is in D, but I've got a capo on the third fret."
TRUE STORY: A local venue was closing and one of my duos was asked to play at what was essentially a closing night jam. After we got done a local singer/songwriter type who was hired to play in between the other acts asked me if I would stay up and play with her. She was well known and worked a lot, so I'd heard of her but never had heard her play. She was actually pretty good and clearly an experienced performer. I was having fun playing with her. Anyway, after a couple of tunes she put on a capo and was unable to tell me what key she was in.
When I told her each fret raises the original key a half step, so just count the half steps to determine the key the capo puts you in, it was like a light bulb went on for her--she thanked me profusely for explaining to her her how that worked. Go figure...I don't even play guitar. How someone playing guitar semi professionally would not know that is mind boggling.
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SweetBlood
57 posts
Apr 01, 2018
10:25 AM
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@hvyj
It amazes me just how many singer songwriters I know who are exactly like that. They know the basic open chords and can instinctually create a nice progression and melody, but really have no idea beyond that. I wish I had half of their creativity sometimes. A good friend and sometime bandmate of mine falls into this category. She has a beautiful voice, writes great lyrics and melodies, and even some interesting chord progressions. Look at one of her old set lists with the keys written by the songs, and you will see key signatures like "G 2," meaning G with a capo on the second fret. Sometimes that isn't even right because she just calls the key by the first chord, which we know is usually the case, but not always. She has one song that starts on a Cm, but it is actually in Bb major. Ask her what key it is and she would likely say Am with a capo on 3.
Last Edited by SweetBlood on Apr 01, 2018 10:26 AM
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LittleBubba
358 posts
Apr 03, 2018
11:45 AM
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I get a kick out of correcting guitar players who shout out the wrong key of the tune they are leading...the last person they expect to hear that from is the harp player. But, they trust you more after that, lol. I don't think I could always do that if it was the first tune played, but after I've done a couple tunes, my pitch sense becomes nearly "perfect" lol. I'm guessing that this is fairly common among veteran harpers.
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