Lots of people seem to use alternate tunings on their harps. The idea is appealing to me, but somewhat daunting as well. I have too many harps as it is, and I'm unclear how one manages different tunings on different harps, and whether it's confusing to switch between them, as it is when beginning to play different positions (took me a long time to not trip over the 6/7 blow/draw transition in 3rd position, for instance).
So for those of you that use alternate tunings for harps, how do you make that work for you? Do you have a full set of harps in the different tunings, or do you just use them for particular keys/songs? Do you only play alternate tunings? If not, is it confusing to switch between them and standard tuned harps? What are the tips and tricks you've picked up along the way? What alternate tunings do you use, and why those? How does it help, or hurt, in different circumstances?
I only pull them out to simplify playing specific songs that are difficult on standard/"Richter" tuned harps. Since I use them only on those specific songs it becomes automatic to use the notes for those songs.
If I tried to generalize it would strain my brain.
I have just a few keys of double Country tuned and Paddy Richter tuned LOs from plate swapping, and 5 keys of minor tuned Lee Oskars. I very seldom touch the alternate tuned harps, preferring modal playing on regular tuned diatonics or chromatics. It would be very expensive and heavy to pack all keys of multiple tunings!
I often played with a guy who plays guitar tuned down 1/2 step, but capos up. I never know what key he will call and have to "do math" to be sure of the song's key at a gig. Sometimes he is off one fret. Because of his varying keys I tend to use standard/"Richter" for almost all my playing and leave the alternates at home.
I would not want to haul all the varieties around with me!
I once did need to double a banjo and guitar comping riff for a recording and used a Paddy Richter in 3rd for the comping. That allowed me to hit one needed note without having to bend to it every time. For soloing on the song I switched to a standard/"Richter" of a different key played in 2nd position.
Brendan Power seems to be able to quickly switch between multiple tunings. If I am going to use an alternately tuned harp for a song I usually have to work on it some. ----------
For songs that seem to more or less require 2 pos harping but have an emphsized maj 7 note, it is good to keep a few harps in country tuning if you want to wail on that particular note. I also have a couple of LO harps in MM, but rarely use them, but for songs with a prominent min 2 chord they can be good to have; also some minor tuned harps that produces rather nice chords (although I´m not particularly chord oriented), but they mostly stay in the bag.
I would still learn 3rd poition--- but if u want to try a “natural minor” harp heres a list of some of my songs I do, on the rack with harp.
Take about 3 monthes for yr ear to differentiate between “nat minor” and Richter tuned—THAT’S IF U DON’T GIVE UP CUZ ITS DIFFERENT AND NEW.
ALSO IF U WANT TO TRY A NAT MINOR HARP—
BEAR IN MIND “LEE OSCARS LABELING IS WEIRD” STUDY HIS LABELING SYSTEM FIRST--
Say u want to try a “E nat minor harp” for thrills is gone in Bm Look at his note chart on his nat minor harps MAKE SURE THE HARP U BUY HAS AN “E” ON 1 BLOW I ‘re- label‘ my minor tuned harps
He labels like this; He calls a C nat minor harp a G nat minor, bcuz yr playing in Gm---study it you’’ll get it
I can play my reg tuned ----- swiTch to “nat minor tuned” and or “melody maker” with absolutely no problem now ----I can even hear the difference in my head. The chords on a ”nat minor” harp sound really smooth and fitting on many minor songs.
Songs I use Nat minor harp on Bear in mind -when solo Im a rack player
Thrill is Gone in Cm I know "but its in Bm" every singer has favorite keys Mine is C and Cm
I shot the sheriff In Gm I use C nat minor harp
Please Dont let me be misunderstood Am--- at the end I segue into "unchain my heart" also in Am---I use an D nat minor harp
Summertime Am D nat minor harp
Aint no sunshine Am use Dm nat harp
Work song-------Gm I do in Gm not Fm---my fingers r arthritic and Gm easier on me---depending on how I feel ----I prefer regular C-----sometimes use Cnat minor
Cowgirl in the sand--Id o in Am use Dm nat harp
Mr magic in Cm use Fnat minor harp
hotel cal do in Am play Dnat minor
Nothin To nobody--Robben ford in Am use D nat minor harp
Songs I use a Melody maker on Stand By me do in G use C mel maker Whats goin on Marvin gaye do in E maj7 so I use an A maj7 harp[melody maker] Georgia I do in A Use LO melody maker in D
Bear in mind Im an extremely open minded person--- I believe its best to learn everything possible. Granted---- time and money won’t allow being “all Knowing”.
Im not saying its not important to learn 3rd pos
heres mr magic with rack local bar harp startts about 27 seconds at about 1;47 u can hear chords on harp over Cm Fm
Heres Thrill bear in mind this was 5 years ago Im alittle smoother now My chords Cm Fm Turn Ab to G the turns chords are not correct but they work for me---I use F nat minor. This is not on rack, but do the same on rack
BBQ bob pointed out I was cheating [ glissando to note]is easier than hitting the note dead on-- He's right I've Been working on that since I last posted this -at any rate
My BS stops at 2:40 or so by the way my initials are BS Bob Snow Doing octave splits on 1 verse 5;14 or so--the backbeat b4 tongue slap to octave sound sweet, do to nat minor harp
Garry-- "I have too many harps as it is" No you don't . . . How do I do it? I can't take them all with me--I have all 14 keys, plus hybrid F and G, a bunch of Major Cross, and half a dozen Melody Makers in the same keys, also a half a dozen Power Chromatics, a couple of this hybrid I came up with that is Circular on the bottom and Richter on the top, and a Seydel Session Steel with the TurboSlider that is tuned to Major Cross on the bottom and Power Chromatic on the top. I use my ear and my knowledge of chords to keep me on track, even so I qualify more as a guitarist than a harmonica player. But it's fun!
PS Thanks Nate, I like the new Captcha!
PPS I also bring at least one chromatic to the gig (I wonder if my gigging days are done) and play that more than anything else. And that is a Orchestra Bebop, starts on G3 but tuned to C except that the last C in every octave (and its slide partner) is tuned to Bb, so the blow chord is C E G Bb (but starts on a G). I have one in D and also in Bb, use the D (which starts on A3) for all those guitar keys and almost never use the Bb (because flat keys are easy on chrom).
Last Edited by Gnarly on May 25, 2020 9:25 PM
Hey, this is a great question. It's definitely not easy managing many alternate tunings. I would say the main thing is to get good on one tuning... kind of the same as if you were playing multiple intruments, you would want to be good on at least one, rather than tinkering with several, wouldn't you? Depends on your disposition, some people would be happy to be ok on several, or get into instrument customisation or construction.
That's my way of dealing with it anyway when starting fresh on multiple tunings, I don't mean to imply that anyone is not good or can't already play.
I've tried a number of tunings and it's settled down on those below - all of the following I've had "success" in terms of having been on commercial recordings on each tuning. I use the term success loosely, but the point is that each or any tuning can work if you stick at it.
1. blues harp / diatonic "richter tuning" - and variants This is the main one I (and most others I'd imagine) started with due to its popularity and low cost. It's a great instrument. I went down the overblow route for a few years but moved to chromatic for jazz playing. Playing the richter layout also gives you easy access to natural minor, country tuning, melody maker - i.e. different scales and sounds without any effort whatsoever. Lee Oskar and Richard Hunter make use of this. Because we tend to think in positions etc on diatonic harp, transposing is not hard - you pick up another diatonic.
2. diminished tunig on chromatic. This is the one I use for jazzimprovisation in general and for Balkan/gypsy jazz music. It's my favourite tuning, very flexible. Takes a while to get very comfortable with and this ties into what I was saying earlier, you really benefit from getting comfortable by being very familiar with one tuning. To me, this is the harmonica where you ultimately can play any of your music on. Here's a Balkan and then a jazz tune on this tuning:
3. A tuning for Irish music. I play a variation of "flat slide chromatic" I made up that I call "Irish Fiddle tuning" that allows me to play fiddle music in a few keys, bend notes and have some double stops and authentic decorations. Again, better if you can get really familar with the music and the layout over a period of time. Here, I'm playing this tuning in the middle pane and on the right, diminished chromatic on left, and blues harp on 2nd tune.
There are so many approaches... again the main thing is, get good on one that's going to do you for the long term, tinker with others and adopt what works. Just my opinion anyway!
Last Edited by blingty on May 26, 2020 3:02 PM
Just realised I didn't answer all of your questions - I hope this helps
>>Do you have a full set of harps in the different tunings, or do you just use them for particular keys/songs?
Full set of diatonic Richter harps and in natural minor, some country tuned, melody makers, paddy richters in some keys. Fewer keys of the chromatics below but a lot of backup copies.
>>Do you only play alternate tunings?
Mostly.
>>What are the tips and tricks you've picked up along the way?
Get good on one at least.
>> What alternate tunings do you use, and why those?
Listed above.
>> How does it help, or hurt, in different circumstances?
Each one suits certain musics better - for example, the diatonic suits me better if there are chords available on it I can use or if the melody is fairly immediately available - the overblow approach doesn't rely on this so much.
Diminished is easy to play in multiple keys for minimum effort and being able to bend a lot of notes.
I use a variety of different tunings fairly often these days. I used to worry about getting confused using them., but like others have said I grab whatever harp I need for a song play it. Different song different harp. I used to worry the different hole size or spacing might throw me off..but all in all it just seemed to be a non issue. I make a chart of each note layout of my various harps. Then I see which notes I need for a song. The notes that are available but also the notes available for my skills or lack there of. I seldom know which 'position' I'm playing in...I leave that for others to know. I just concentrate on the ability to do a song and make it sound enjoyable to others to listen. I increasing use 'paddy'harps, for blues or most any song. I don't keep a full set of alternative harps but, for example, I use the Em harp in the key of G for one of my favorite songs. That might be 3rd position but it doesn't matter as long as the notes are there for the song. and of course I still bend notes etc as needed to do a tune. Let's see.. I use an A melody maker to do a tune in Am that I like, but a couple other harps might also do the trick..so it's not carved in stone or anything. Mostly I figure the better I get the more harps are available for me to play with. So it's a win win for getting better or broadening my abilities ...good luck with all...have some fun!
Last Edited by Spderyak on May 27, 2020 3:48 AM
I recently got to thinking about harp tuning layout, wondering why there wasn't one with a good ii7-V7 (the most common chord progression in jazz). So I got to poking around and modified a Power Chromatic (which is tuned C E G A blow and D F# A B draw), changing one draw note (raise the B note to a C). So as far as "managing", I think of PC and then remember that the B note (which is a pretty important note, the third of the key of G, which is the native key or "tonal center") is only available as a draw bend. If I play it in "second", that is, key of D, I don't have to rely on the B too much, much easier. But hey, I did it for the ii-V chord action, so I have nothing to complain about. Boy, I am loving the new reCAPTCHA feature!
So for those of you that use alternate tunings for harps, how do you make that work for you? Do you have a full set of harps in the different tunings, or do you just use them for particular keys/songs? Do you only play alternate tunings? If not, is it confusing to switch between them and standard tuned harps? What are the tips and tricks you've picked up along the way? What alternate tunings do you use, and why those? How does it help, or hurt, in different circumstances?
I have 3 full sets of the tunings that I play regularly, common Richter and 2 alternates. I use the alternates for style or genre away from traditional blues, although one of the alternates includes Richter 1-6. I use it for gospel/blues. I use the other alternate (circular) for jazz, classical and pop.
Switching between the 3 sets that I frequently play is no problem. I also play modified Lucky 13’s and custom 7 hole harps. I feel like all of these different harmonicas have purpose. The L13’s are harder to cup but they have extended range. The 7 hole harps lack the high end but the hand work is awesome.
I like experimenting. I have a box full of random tunings in different keys that I’ve spent some time on. Some of these are pretty cool but I just don’t find the time to play most of them or develop the needed mussel memory.
Tips: If you can play Richter you can certainly learn to play alternates. There are a bunch of alternates to choose from. Seydel will build virtually anything. They also have a nice web site for looking at established tunings and creating custom layouts. Personally, I like the DIY approach for creating and testing alternates. It’s pretty easy to swap reeds and do some retuning.
PS, I like that this post follows Gnarly. He helped me with my early attempts of alternate tunings.
The Lucky 13 harps are great in that they: 1. are a modern build, screws holding everything together 2. come in a variety of tunings already 3. have 13 holes, that usually is enough. The reeds are spot welded to the reed plates, that can be troublesome for some folks, but I have the materials to reattach them so that's less of a concern for me. Brendan is an altered tuning guy but I am right up there. Still coming up with stuff. Too bad I can't do a decent train LOL
Last Edited by Gnarly on May 28, 2020 1:42 PM
